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Unread postPosted: 17 Jun 2017, 22:05 
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Joined: 20 May 2017, 20:50
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Hi everybody

I work at mobile game development company based in Denmark.

For some time now, I have been working on my own free-to-play mobile game, which I have been given permission to develop outside work.

The game I’m working on is a simple survival type game in which the player has a short amount of time to complete the entire game.

So far, the feedback I have received from friends and coworkers has been positive.

My personal goal with this game project is to start a series - If successful, the game could be used as a platform for future game releases.

However, although I’ve been given permission to develop the game outside work (the company I work for owns everything I develop in and outside work), I’m not allowed to work with any of my colleagues from work.

This is a small problem because I need some help going forward…

If you have the spare time and interest, I would be happy to share and explain designs, gameplay and user acquisition plans in more detail.

The game itself is very simple and should not take more than a week (MAX) to develop.

I’m confident that the gameplay and viral mechanics fulfill the basic factors in self-determination theory, which are central in keeping players engaged. I’m also confident that the Facebook campaign that I’ve been working on has the potential to go viral.

I just need your help going forward

Payment:
15.000 DKK up front
50/50 split on potential revenues

If you are a unity developer and if you are interested in working together, please contact me:
amme12ac@gmail.com


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Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2017, 11:26 
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Joined: 09 Apr 2010, 11:25
Posts: 166
I'm not completely sure what it is you asking for. Are you asking someone to pay you 15.000 for 50% of the game that the company you work for owns?

Or did I misunderstand the part about "the company I work for owns everything I develop in and outside work"?

I'm also curious to understand what the 15.000 is supposed to be used for since you also write that it should take 7 days to do.

Sincerely,

Peter


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Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2017, 18:14 
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Joined: 20 May 2017, 20:50
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No no no
Nobody has to pay me anything :D

To clarify:
Anything game related that I work on inside AND outside work, belongs to the company I work for.

However, I have been given permission to develop my own game in my spare time – that means that I own the game, not the company.

The problem is: I’m not allowed to work with any of the game programmers from work, since the managers want the programmers to focus on company tasks and not “waste time” on side projects.

This is a problem for me because I need some help going forward.

Which is why I’m asking for help in this forum.

In return for helping me, I’m offering 15.000 and 50 % on all potential revenues.

I’m very sorry if I did not community this message clearly and caused confusion


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Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 01:47 
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Joined: 21 Jul 2009, 19:03
Posts: 202
Location: England
I find this very confusing. You say you have been given permission by the company you work for but is this a verbal permission or written one? And is it clearly stated that this permission will overrule the company policy and that the company gives you 100% ownership of this project? If it does not, the company you work for willl technically speaking own the your project and take you to court if needed. On a slightly different note, perhaps you should reconsider your position at the company you work for, of all of the companies I have been working for, not once have they had a company policy like the one you describe and if I was offered a contract with these terms I would not accept the position. Anyway, despite the restricted freedom they give their employees I wonder why they will be willing to make an exception but even though you would be fine with accepting these kind of policies, be careful with investing your money in a project like this without a solicitors opinion.

Good luck


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Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 08:32 
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"I find this very confusing. You say you have been given permission by the company you work for but is this a verbal permission or written one?"
> Written

"And is it clearly stated that this permission will overrule the company policy and that the company gives you 100% ownership of this project?"
> Yes

"...of all of the companies I have been working for, not once have they had a company policy like the one you describe"
> You are lucky then. It's actually common practice in countries like the US
Link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208056


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Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 10:03 
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008, 09:31
Posts: 195
@zerohero: You may not have such a clause explicitly stated in your contract, but there's an implicit clause in that anything your employer can reasonably justify is a result of your job belongs to them (no matter during which hours of the day it was developed). Writing a game in your spare time while working for a game company presents you with a really hard case if your employer decides your pet project belongs to them. It might not be fair, but in DK at least, it's the law (Ophavsretslovens § 59)

In this particular case, it is completely irrelevant as I understand from OPs answer that he has a written permission to develop this project in his spare time, but in general, if you are a software developer, do not expect to be able to write software on the side and still claim the copyright.


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Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 11:15 
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Location: England
In that case I am very happy I am in the UK. I have asked specifically about this for every company I have been working for here in the UK and when I bring it up they look at me like, why would anyone require that of their employees. I find this law extremely unfair as it will disencourage employees to learn new technologies and perfect their skills, also it will make it much more difficult for people to start up a new company (and potentially create work and jobs for others) as what they have made in their spare time belongs to previous employers and they would have to start from scratch. That would mean if you are permanent full time employee you are pretty much tied up with the company you work for, you would have to quit and take on an unrelated work to support yourself to start your own business? That sounds pretty extreme way to go, if you ask me,


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Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 11:58 
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008, 09:31
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>it will disencourage employees to learn new technologies and perfect their skills

That's a bit far-fetched. Some (dare I say most?) employees actually want to perfect their skills to be better at their jobs (to open up for new opportunties), very few do so to create new products or businesses.

>it will make it much more difficult for people to start up a new company (and potentially create work and jobs for others)

Might be true, but that is not really your current employers concern or goal.

> what they have made in their spare time belongs to previous employers and they would have to start from scratch

The law says that if what you have created can be attributed to your previous job it belongs to them. The problem is that it is up to you (and quite difficult) to prove that it does not fall under this clause. Best way to do this is to get an explicit written permission beforehand.

>That would mean if you are permanent full time employee you are pretty much tied up with the company you work for,

Yes, that's how it usually is. You're free to quit and start your own at any time, so you do have a choice.

>you would have to quit and take on an unrelated work to support yourself to start your own business?

Yes, or related work - as long as you are not employed (that's what I do - I work as a consultant to pay the bills, but am free to do whatever else I want when I'm not consulting - it means that I'm taking the risk, and my customers pay me explicitly for specific deliveries, so have no say in whatever else I decide to spend my time on).

>That sounds pretty extreme way to go, if you ask me

You can turn that around and ask: "Is it fair that your current employer should help finance you leaving them and starting a competing business"? If you are an employee but really want to be an employer, then maybe you should suck it up and take the risk, instead of asking someone else to finance it?

I guess the basic problem when it comes to software is that "working in my spare time" is a hard thing to quantify. It might work if you are paid by the hour for putting tomatoes in tin cans, but as a software developer I could be sitting at my day-job thinking about things related to my pet project while claiming to be thinking about work - no one would be able to tell. Hell, in most jobs I've had I could have been *working* on pet project while claiming to be doing what I should - no one in management would have had a clue.

I'm not saying the current law is "fair" in all cases - just that the opposite would not (always) be fair either (or at least be very easy to exploit). Even with the current law you *could* develop a product in your sparetime and when you think it's done, quit your day job, wait a few months and then release it - you can always claim it was developed after you left. What you *can't* do is sit in your comfy day job and run your own (potentially competing) business on the side, which seems quite fair IMHO.


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Unread postPosted: 20 Jun 2017, 11:59 
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Joined: 21 Jul 2009, 19:03
Posts: 202
Location: England
Quote:
> You are lucky then. It's actually common practice in countries like the US


US and UK are very different countries but having said that, I will have a look if the same law exists in the UK, I doubt it does as I have never heard anyone speak about this issue over here (and I should know as all my employers have been informed about my spare time project, Pixie3D) but I could of course be wrong.


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Unread postPosted: 28 Jun 2017, 13:55 
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Joined: 02 Jan 2017, 15:16
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I find nothing hard to understand about the original post or the conditions (that are a bit "nazi", but not uncommon - unfortunately). if a developer wants to be part of the project; do a week or twos work for 15.000 - plus 50% revs - the only question that person should be asking is:

1 - do i believe in the project
2 - and am i interested in doing freelance work/be part of a start up.

It goes the other way around too - only involve people who are genuinely interested in what you do, and that you sincerely want to involve.


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Unread postPosted: 01 Aug 2017, 10:45 
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Joined: 31 Oct 2013, 11:31
Posts: 11
Anders Michael wrote:
I find nothing hard to understand about the original post or the conditions (that are a bit "nazi", but not uncommon - unfortunately). if a developer wants to be part of the project; do a week or twos work for 15.000 - plus 50% revs - the only question that person should be asking is:

1 - do i believe in the project
2 - and am i interested in doing freelance work/be part of a start up.

It goes the other way around too - only involve people who are genuinely interested in what you do, and that you sincerely want to involve.


To the point:)
Anyway - it might help to write a little about what kind of skills in particular you're looking for, what is your own skillset - and why are you looking for outside help? Are you looking for someone with skills to complement your own (Like a game designer or artist looking for a programmer) - or is it because you simply don't have enough time on your hand to complete the project yourself?


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Unread postPosted: 02 Aug 2017, 10:54 
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Jesper Nielsen wrote:

Anyway - it might help to write a little about what kind of skills in particular you're looking for, what is your own skillset - and why are you looking for outside help? Are you looking for someone with skills to complement your own (Like a game designer or artist looking for a programmer) - or is it because you simply don't have enough time on your hand to complete the project yourself?


true.


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